Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: A warm welcome once again to the sportsbench podcast. The podcast that brings you stories from sports stars and legends behind the scenes that you don't often hear from. I'm your host, Mark Miller, a retired professional footballer and now financial advisor based in the Northeast of England. In each and every conversation, you'll learn specific factors pivotal to the success of our guests, their experience gained and valuable lessons learned. Through their stories, you may possibly reflect on your own goals, aspirations, ambitions and beliefs. Following on from episode one, when I sat down with Newcastle United's Graham Jones, a little change of track for episode two. And in this episode I sat down with Alan Tait, who, as far as golf is concerned in Scotland, has filled every possible role and can lay claim to a pretty special Tiger woods meeting. But before we engage with Alan, today's episode wouldn't have been possible without the continued support of Nick Johnson and the team at Studio Inter. They are an independent brand consulting and design studio based in the Northeast and will help you and your brand stand out and capture your target audience. Please visit studiointo.co.uk to find out more.
Now, please sit back, relax and enjoy this episode with a very talented and comical individual.
Another welcome to the sportsbench podcast. And today, sitting in the Dalmahoy Hotel and Country Club on the outskirts of Edinburgh with an individual who I honestly and genuinely believe must be the most accredited and valued person within the whole of Scotland, if not the UK's golfing industry.
Started as an amateur, won Scottish boys title at Dunbar, represented and played in the Europe and the World Junior Championships, turned pro in 90, played on the Scottish Tartan Tour, won the Scottish PPGA Match Play staggeringly, the course record at Canustie for 23 years, 64, 8 under, which we'll get onto. And played on the European Tour. But if that wasn't enough. Also an after dinner speaker, a radio host, a presenter, a golf commentator, director of golf in the golf and hospitality industry, hosts and runs professional and amateur golf events, several ambassadorial roles, teaching and working with the next generation of golfers. The warmest welcome from the sportsbench podcast listeners to Alan Tate. And Alan, that was actually me cutting it short. It's quite impressive, isn't it?
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Thank you, Mark. Yeah, that was quite an introduction. Let's cut the winter a wee bit shorter. That was good. Thank you.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Do you stop for a minute and realise what you've achieved since those amateur days all the way through and how good that CV looks? Alan, or are you always looking forward?
[00:03:02] Speaker A: No, I think I reflect Occasionally as well. And I'm very proud, you know, when I do go to dinners and I get an introduction very similar to what you've just given me there, I take it in and it's nice. It's a nice moment to remember those days.
Looking forward, not so much, certainly, playing the game. You know, I'm 52 now.
My days of sort of standing on the range for hours on end are long gone. I very much play for fun now, although I still play competitively. I'll play maybe 15, 16 events in Scotland this year, and I've still got that competitive edge in me, but when I play in a competition now, I'll literally hit 50 balls the night before, I'll hit another few the next morning and I'm ready to go. And I go there with no expectation now and enjoy it now more than ever did, because you're going out there with no expectation. And I think when you're as relaxed as that, it's amazing how well you still play. But. Oh, yeah, of course, I'm very immensely proud. Looking back at my achievements very briefly.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Alan, I mean, I'm going to be greedy here. I've got a lot to get through. Tons of questions I want to ask you. But just briefly, is there one or two areas on there that give you the most satisfaction or that make you feel internally very good about what's achieved? Just one or two of them, Yeah.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: I think you mentioned it in my intro there, and I know I was only 16 at the time, but winning the Scottish Boys was huge for me.
I had grown up as a wee boy. My big brother used to play in it and it was a massive event and it was televised. The final was STV and they used to show the highlights on Scott Sport on the Sunday.
And it was an amazing week. And I'm from Irvine originally, and I turned up for the final on that Saturday and there was about four buses up from Irvine. A huge, big following and it was just a very special day. And really, you know, from that, winning the Scottish Boys, that was the start of my career, really. Everything from there, that was, you know, that was what opened up all these wonderful opportunities I've had in the game. So for me, the Scottish Boys sticks out. The other one, very briefly is when I captained the European boys team to victory in the team championships in Chantilly in France, and we were the first ever Scottish team to win on foreign soil. And in that team was Andrew Coulter.
He was my number, number two. And we won the European Team Championships. We beat the Old Enemy in the quarterfinals. Then we beat Sweden in the semis. And in the semis, you know, they had Joachim Hagman, Pero, Rick Johansson and their team Ryder cup players. And then we beat Denmark in the final. And I'll always remember standing at that castle at Chaumtier having won the European Boys Team Championship and they sold to Irgain up and they're playing o', Florida, Scotland. It was a seriously special moment.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: So I think anyone that plays sport at a professional level is about the memories and it shouldn't surprise me, but maybe others how the clarity of what you remember the really highlights. I mean, it is quite special indeed. Alan, did you prefer or were you able to enjoy the game more as an amateur before turning pro, or was there a naivety as an amateur just to go out and play and enjoy?
[00:06:14] Speaker A: No, I don't think I enjoyed it anymore. Or any less smart. I'll be honest with you. For me, it was just.
It was a sport. It was a sport I was good at. And whether it was amateur or pro, it meant, you know, that I'm in these events to win and compete, whether it was amateur or professional. So did I enjoy them? I can't really remember if I really enjoyed it. As I say, I enjoy it more now than I have ever in probably the last 10, 12, 15 years when, you know, I've not been as competitive and it's not been my, my only goal in life anymore. You know, back then golf was all anew and that was my only source of income as well. So I think when I turned pro, yeah, it was maybe slightly less enjoyable because there was more pressure to actually make money, to pay your flat, to pay your car, all these other things. So there's a wee bit added pressure, I suppose. But I don't think I enjoyed or didn't enjoy one or the other. It was great fun.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Possibly go into your zone mode when you're playing, obviously, because you know the outcome, you know what's, you know what's potentially at stake.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: And looking back, what were your strengths as a golfer, Alan? You know, how would the Alan Tate now look upon the young, the young Alan Tate as a player? Amateur?
[00:07:28] Speaker A: I've always been a very good driver of the golf ball.
Never the longest, certainly not the shortest. I would say probably sort of average length. But I was always a very good driver of the ball. Very rarely get any trouble. I've always had like a little fade all my days down the left, let it slide back in, and I'm comfortable with that. So I Always did well in tight courses. You know, if there was a lot out of bounds and a lot of heavy tree, a lot of heavy rough or trees. Always seemed to play well in good courses. I was a very, very good chipper and putter.
But latterly, in the late 90s, early 2000s, out of nowhere, I developed the yips with the chipping, and it was absolutely horrendous. I mean, it arrived one day out of nowhere, and I had it for about three years. And I went to a hypnotist. I went to every.
Every golf coach under the planet, short game gurus. I tried everything, and I couldn't shift it. It was all in the head. And then I went out one day, and I'll never forget where I was. I was at the first hole at San Lorenzo in Portugal playing a Pro Am, and I had to chip over the bunker at the first, and it was lying horrible. And I thought, here we go. I'm just gonna duff it into the bunker or I'll knife it through the back. And I was almost accepting it, and I hit it. And I thought, oh, who hit that?
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Cracking.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Me shot about, you know, six inches for the hole, knocked it in. And then about four holes later, I had another really tough chip to play, and again, great. Me shot up close to the hole, knocked it in, and I've been fine ever since. It's unbelievable. That's just the madness of the game.
So that was not a fun three years. I mean, I was putting so much pressure on myself to hit every green so as I didn't have to chip. And you're not going to hit every green, so you had to find a way of getting it round. So, yeah, definitely.
I think all my days, my driving has been my strength. Chipping and putting. Early days was great, but then not so much as time went on.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: And from amateurs moving forward. Alan, I mean, I golf a lot with friends, and I know they kind of ask similar questions that. That probably they want me to ask, but is there better opportunities for success for amateurs progressing into the senior pro levels now, or is it still the same fine lines between back then and now when you were.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely a lot more opportunity now, but what I would also say on the back of that is that the standard now is ridiculous. It really is, Mark. I mean, the standard was good, you know, when I was coming through 20, 25 years ago, from amateur to probably, but the standard now is frightening. But so, you know, I'll still get the odd father coming up to you. I know you're talking about seniors, but I'll still get the odd father coming up to me saying, my lady's just won the club championship. He's 17 and he plays off three. He's thinking of turning pro and going for his tour card. And you don't mean to be disrespectful to them. They're obviously very proud of their son and good on them, but I, you know, I'll do it as diplomatically as I can, but my last line to them is always, listen. See, when your son's playing off plus five or plus six and he's played Walker cup and he's represented his country, come back and speak to me then. We might have a conversation. But at the moment, he's not even in the first rung of the ladder. And it's like that through every level. Boys, youth, seniors, ladies, golf as well. So the standard now is just. It's remarkable. It really is frightening, which is good.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: To know for the game going forward as well.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: It really is, yeah.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: And I think another topic that always comes up, Alan, is modern technology.
How do you think your game would have benefited? Or would it have benefited? Because obviously the equipment in the balls is just continuously being discussed and in the news and commented on.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, I regularly go and visit my elderly parents down in Ayrshire and sometimes I clamber up the loft just for a rummage about. There's old scrapbooks up there of mine and everything. And there's a bag there with the clubs that I used to use.
And pick up an iron now, and I'm going, my God, how did you hit that? And then I'll take a head cover off a three wood and it's a persimmon with a small head, and I'm like, my goodness.
And, you know. But because you didn't know any other way then, that was the tools you had then and everyone was the same and that's what you used, and that was it. So it was a level playing field then, it's still a level playing field now, despite the technology has changed so much.
But, you know, here I am at 52 years old and I definitely drive the ball further now than I was in the prime of my career. And that is purely down to the shafts, the ball, the heads, everything else that comes with. It's nothing to do with Alan Tate all of a sudden being an athlete. Certainly not that. So, yeah, the technology has been huge. But I do agree with Jack Nicholas. Jack's quite vocal about reeling it in a little Bit, you know, maybe do something with the ball because it's going to end up, you know, they're going to have to start building golf courses at 8,000 yards in years to come and not, not that far in the distant future because you know, even tough long courses now, they're pitch and putt now for a lot of the boys, the top players. So then you have to build longer courses. That costs more money then that course doesn't sit with members. Well, because the average handicap of members is still 16. An 8,000 yard golf course is no use to them. So we do need to, and I'm all for change. I like moving on with the times. Absolutely. But we do just need to be a wee bit careful I think where it ends up.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: I think especially on that obviously the Open is back at St. Andrews this year, but not just St. Andrews, but unless the weather prevails, there's a lot of the Open championships now where the course is just, just not long enough. They're just not a test enough. And then you've got to let the rough grow. You've got to pray for the, for the conditions. So it is difficult.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: Well, Mark, if it's benign weather this year at St. Andrews, you could be looking at 25, 30 underwin.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: I mean 20 plus easy.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: I mean, I mean as you know, you can hit it as far left as you want around the old course all day long. So you guys can just stand up a big high hook and they'll get it down there near, they'll get it down near the green and it will be a pitch and putt contest. So I'm really hoping that St. Andrews, There is a 10, 15, 20 mile an hour wind just to, you know, make sure that doesn't happen. But listen, if it does happen, it happens. You know, the best guy will still win whatever the weather's doing.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: No, interesting it will be as long as it's not the rain that was there a few years ago because it was pretty horrendous. Alan, I was conscious of your early years as well. And look, we're similar ages but going back we were limited to television coverage, etc. But who did you watch when you were younger? Who excited you on the television or if you were fortunate enough to see them play live as you were kind of growing up and getting into golf.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Well, my all time golfing hero, and I just mentioned him there was Jack Nicklaus and I think the favorite major ever watched to this day was 1986 when he won the Masters at 46 year old, I was only 16 and that was on the Sunday night. And ironically, I'd won the Scottish boys 24 hours before, so that was a seriously, seriously special weekend for me. So I loved watching Jack, but I'm a huge Tiger fan as well, I really am. I think Tiger, like him or not, he's been amazing for the game and, you know, I know he's not everybody's cup of tea, but what he's achieved and he's exciting to watch, I very rarely watch golf in the telemark, believe it or not, I'm really not interested. Sitting there on a Sunday night watching American TV or a tournament with guys that have made never heard of, and they're taking six hours to get around and taking two minutes to hit a shot. I find it boring.
I'll still tune into the Masters, the Open, Rider cup, maybe, you know, the Players Championship, which is just about started sawgrass. That's always quite exciting. So I like the game to be exciting, I really do. And I was a huge Seve fan, but again, who wasn't, you know, seve, you know, what he did for European golf, a lot of these top pros just now would not be where they are today. And being for Seve, he absolutely changed the European tour for the better. And it just brought so much happiness to people, you know, and God bless him, just died a very young man.
So Seve, Jack and Tiger, you know, it's not a bad. Not a bad four ball to join up with the three of them, is it?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: I'm sure you'd hold your own as long as it was on Premier State again, just briefly, but changing. How did you have to change physically and mentally transitioning from amateur to pro? And what were the biggest challenges?
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Well, I didn't do enough of it. Looking back, Martin, it's a wee bit of a. Wee bit of a regret. I don't have many regrets in life, but certainly I was very naive that had a good amateur career and once I got my tour card, I thought the transition was just going to be very simple. I'm a great amateur.
Sorry. I've got a great amateur career and I'm going to turn pro and I'm going to make a lot of money in the European Tour and have a great lifestyle. I was so unprepared for what was around the corner. I mean, I remember the first few events I played in the European Tour, I played with what I would call journeyman tour pros who'd been out there 15, 20 years, but the public probably wouldn't have heard of two or three of them. And they were on a different planet from me. And these were just guys who would maybe finish a hundredth and the Order of Merit every year, scrape their cards.
Yeah. And they were on a different planet. And I wasn't prepared for how good the standard was, was. And this was 1997, that's 25 years ago. And the standard now is 10 times where it was then. So mentally I wasn't prepared for how good they were. I was naive to think that I was just going to go there and from a standing start, you know, be a big name. The European Tour.
And then physically, yeah, I should have been going to the gym, I should have been getting myself fit. I'm stronger. All the travelling you're doing, you need to be fit mentally and physically. You very, very rarely see a Craig Stadler walking about now, or a John Daly with a bit of a beard, gut on them. These guys are all athletes. I mean, you look at Stenson, I mean, what a great looking man, physique, everything. I mean, he's like an Olympic athlete, the way he's built. And they're all at that now.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: That's now the normal, isn't it?
[00:17:20] Speaker A: That is the normal. I mean, they all eat well, they all work out, you know, they've all got their mental coaches, they're prepared for everything. They're prepared for every scenario that's put in front of them, be it good or bad. And I wasn't prepared for any of it. So I was a bit naive. I have to, by my own admission.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: I'll go back to well mentioned fine lines earlier and I mean, I was fortunate as well to play in a few pro ams when Spey Valley was hosting one of the Europro tours on an annual basis and playing with some of the pros off the tee, phenomenal. 250, 300 easy. What I found, and obviously at my low level of golf, was just visually watching them play for 18 holes. It was that 150 in. Oh, yeah, that was, that seemed to be. I mean, that was only a practice round before the competition started, but that seemed to me at my level where you really make your shots, where you can make a difference, where these people that you say journeyman actually excelled to keep the tour card.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Yeah, 100% agree, Martin. I was exactly the same as you my one and only year on tour. I was amazed you said 150. And I was going to say maybe about 100, 110. But from sand wedge wedge log wedge 56.
Frightening.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Up and down, you know.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Ah, I mean, you know, from that distance I had it to 1012ft. You're going, oh, that's fine. Good shot. That's a bad shot for them. You know, they're looking to stiff it, if not hole it and see the amount of hold shots you see now, you know, as I say, I don't watch an awful lot of golf, but anytime I do, there's half a dozen shots getting holed out from the middle of the fairway, from 100, 120 every day. I mean, you know, you would get one occasionally and European Tour would play it over and over on the highlights, you get five or six full hold shots out every day in every tournament now. It's astonishing.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Well, I'm not sure, but I'm sure most people should be aware. There won't be many that's unaware, but I would like to touch on it, but briefly, could you recount the enormity of holding that course record at Kurnusti for 23 years? I alluded to it earlier, eight under 64. Obviously it was beaten eventually by Tommy Fleetwood. But for such an iconic course, to hold that record for such a long period of time, I mean, it must have gave you immense pride and maybe somebody was going to beat it eventually, but just something to really be remembered for.
Over what, senility? In three decades?
[00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I was hoping to maybe get to a quarter of a century. That was the target, to try and get 25 years. But to be honest, I was amazed that it lasted so long because I never ever thought it would go in the Open because the course setup was so tough.
But I always thought the Dunhill, you know, in October, the roughs cut back and I thought, you know, on a benign day, you know, the guys could get it because the rough's not bad.
So I was amazed that lasted 23 years. And the day that Tommy Fleetwood hold the putt in the last to beat it. Honestly, my phone, my emails, my Facebook went daft and folk were actually concerned for me. They were like, big man, are you alright? Are you okay?
I think I was more chilled out than half my pals and half my family and friends. I was delighted. Honestly, the bit I was delighted about was that I'd lost it to a Ryder cup player and a good guy and a guy that I'm a big fan of.
It wouldn't have been so good if it had been like a Carnoustie member playing in the medley on a Saturday that plays off +3 that nobody's really heard of. So the fact that I lost it to Tommy Fleetwood, honestly, and you know, it was great fun, as you said. I knew it was going to come to an end one day and 23 years. I mean, a course record nowadays lasts about three months, six months and then it's beat. So to have it that long. But it was an amazing day, Martin. And without blown my own horn.
I'm often asked about around that day, you know, you know, oh, I must have holed everything. And did you hold any bunker shots? Did you chip in?
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Could it have been better?
[00:21:07] Speaker A: But I just did, I did none of that. I mean, the longest pothole genuinely was about 12, 14ft. That was just around where, you know, I drove the ball well and my iron play was great and I just took my chances. I mean, it was, it was the way golf should be played. And if I could bottle how I played that day, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you, I'd be sitting on a private island somewhere.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Talking to me.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: Okay, I probably would be talking to me. I'd be on a beach somewhere.
But it was just a great round of golf and it could have been better. I actually bogied 16, but everybody does the par three.
And then I had chances at 17 and 18, you know, 17 had probably about 15 footer for birthday and at the last I had about a 16, 17 footer. But to be fair, at last I wasn't even thinking the hole and I was just wanting to dribble it down there and get off. So it could have been slightly better, but I've not been greedy. It was an amazing day and one.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: I cherish and 23 years mileage out of it. It is my favourite open course.
I genuinely love playing it. And look, it kind of resulted and I'm sure a lot of people do know in a practice round, an approach by Tiger woods and his team. I think he was about a 20 year old. I'm not being dismissive here. I'm not really interested in talent of Tiger woods because we kind of seen it, we understood it. But what impressed you most about him that day as a person? Yeah, either his demeanor, how he handled himself, how he just went about his business, you know, rather than just obviously the, the key element that was the talent that you had.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question mark. And I'm often asked that. And there was actually the, the other member that joined the, the tee time that day was Ben Crenshaw, who had just won the Masters for the Second time. And Ben Crenshaw was always a hero of mine.
He just won the Masters Three.
Gentle Ben, that's him. And I was actually more intimidated going to be playing with Ben Crenshaw because we didn't know an awful lot about Tiger at the time.
And as I said, I was more intimidated about meeting Ben Crenshaw. But I have to say, Mark, the two of them, I mean, Ben Crenshaw was exactly how I thought he was going to be. He was one of the. He is the nicest top professional I've ever played with, without a shadow of a doubt. He was just the nicest man. Genuine, just a lovely, lovely person. And I have to say, Tiger, again, like him or loathe him. And I know he's, you know, he's. Over the years, he's done some terrible things with spitting in the greens and, you know, not dealing with things very well. That day, he was just a lovely, mature young man and full of talk, full of life.
And that was his first ever round of golf in Scotland. And I'm amazed that I was able to have that honour of playing with Tiger. And, you know, every single homer, he was over talking to me, Alan, what would you do here? Where would you hit it here? You know, what's over the back? You know, is it better to be short of the green here? Better to be over.
But he also asked me lots of questions about Scotland and our culture.
And he. I was embarrassed. He knew some things about Scotland that I didn't know. And I said to Ben Crenshaw, walking down. Always remember walking down the 15th. And I said to Ben, what about him? I said, he knows more about Scotland than I do. He said, alan, he's unbelievable. He says when he goes to a new country, he basically reads a couple of days before about that country. He'll go and buy a book, but then he'll sit in the plane the whole way and read about that country's visit. And so he was talking to me about, you know, 1700s in Scotland and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, you know, and I thought, fair play to you. You know, he embraces the countries he's going to and he wants to feel that he knows a bit of a part about them. And the two of them, I have to say, were absolutely fantastic to play with. We had a great day. We came in at lunch after, it was like sitting with two old pals and we sat at a laugh and Tiger was asking me about Rainbow.
He asked me, did I like soccer? And I said, oh, yeah, I'm a big football fan, Tiger. And he says, so, Alan, are you a Ranger or are you a Celt?
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Right?
[00:25:06] Speaker A: And I started laughing and I said, tiger, it's Rangers or Celtic. And we had a good laugh about that. And I told him about the rivalry between Rangers and Celtic and the hatred, and he was amazed.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: He couldn't believe.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: He couldn't get his head around it. He absolutely couldn't get his head around it. And I said, you know, they don't stand in the same parts of the ground. And, you know, and I said, you know, there's people getting stabbed and terrible things going on. And he couldn't get. He couldn't get his head around it, but he quite liked it. But at the same time he was like, wow, that's. He said, I didn't know it was as bad as that. So it's no great Tiger. It's a great rivalry, but sometimes it can definitely go. Go too far.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Different type of history much from then.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: On, much more different.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: But it seemed he was quite respectful. But you kind of took my next question out the way, really, to be honest, because I think Ben Crenshaw, when you played with Tiger woods, it's one and it's a name that kind of overlooked, you know, a two time Masters champion. Were you nervous?
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Oh, I was very nervous. In fact, my very first tee shot, I tried to hit a two iron off the first at Karnoostie and massive crowd around the tee. There really was. And there was a stand to the left of the first and that was full. So they're all there. We see Crenshaw and Tiger.
And I stood up, mark two iron. And honestly, I've hit about a foot behind the ball, almost divot over the ball stuff, a total duff. And I was like, oh, my God. And you know, silence in the crowd. And then to make matters worse, Tiger then threw me a ball out of his bag and said, oh, come on, Alan, you can do better than that. And I'm like, oh, no, I've got to do it again, I've got to hit another one. But that was nice of him to kind of. And everybody laugh when he said that. So that kind of relaxed me and I stood up and I hit the next one, pinged it down the middle to the, to the rapturous support, I think the sympathetic applause of the crowd. So I was really nervous in the first tee, but to be fair, once we get the first hold by, I was very relaxed and enjoyed it and actually played pretty well after that. And we just had a great day.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: I have to say, Alan, when I was doing a bit of looking around, I found an image of the three of you. Photo that was taken of the 3U during the round.
I had to zoom in. But I tell you what, the young Alan Tate looked pretty well, didn't you?
[00:27:14] Speaker A: Yeah, a bit of a hair on me as well. Yeah.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. Honestly, it's just. It's bizarre when you know someone, but then you see a picture from. From 25 years ago.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: But look, special times and memories. And I think any sports person, looking back, it's. It's what we play sport for in one sense. You mentioned that you didn't have any regrets. Alan, probably take the question the other way, and you've kind of alluded to it slightly, but did you get the best out of yourself? I know you mentioned the physical side and maybe the training kind of side, but as a game and as a talent, do you feel, looking back.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: No. I think if you ask any sports person, I think every single one of them, well, not everyone, but I think most of them will say, you know, I gave it 95%, but there was a 5% I could have done more. I would say I did probably. Probably 70, 75% of what I was capable of. I think there was still a meaty little number there that I could have put a little bit more in. And by that, I mean being a little bit more disciplined.
Knocking out with the boys at the weekend for a few beers when you've got a tournament on the next day, not practicing as hard as I should. I loved playing more. I hated hitting balls. I was much happier. Maybe, you know, we're sitting here at Dalmahoy, and I would be much happier going out and playing, you know, 27 holes on my own and maybe dropping two, three balls every hole and pitching about the greens. I love doing that, but I get no joy of standing hitting balls every day, or standing hitting, you know, 500 putts in the putting green for a few hours. And that's what you've got to do. There's no getting away from it. And I think where I let myself down, I was naive that I just thought my raw talent would get me through this.
It did throw all through amateur golf. It did through regional tartan tours, playing in Scotland.
But when you go to another level, like the European tour, boy, you need to up your game and you need to change. You need to change your lifestyle, you need to change your disciplines, you need to change your goals, and you need to change your practice and there's so many things you need to change and it was not that I refused to do it, it was just kind of not in my nature to change and I didn't. So, you know, if I'd done all that, would things have been differently? We'll never know. I might not have any more success or less or least success than I had. So. But there's definitely things I could have.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Done to improve, give you a better opportunity.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:29:42] Speaker B: A couple of last questions. More so, just about the playing side of things. Alan, how did you deal with failure?
And probably this is an add on. Do you believe that failure can be or should be a key to success?
[00:29:52] Speaker A: I do, yeah. And I was a bad loser, Mark. When I was a kid I hated losing, I really did, you know, if I lost the game and the Scottish boys or something like that, it was tears, you know, it was tears in the clubhouse, it was tears and getting home in the car or sitting in the back seat, my mum and dad driving and. But, but I think that when you take losing as so does that it makes winning all them all all the better. You really do, you really feel. And, and you know, but again I think that was the this of not the immaturity but just an age thing because as you grow older, don't get me wrong, I still don't like losing. You know, get out the Archer field, we'll throw the balls up, you know, me and you against the other two boys will play for a tenor or whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm trying like a bear. I don't want to lose. I still don't want to lose.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: It's bragging rights, isn't it?
[00:30:42] Speaker A: It is bragging rights a little bit and it's something you have an ego thing that you don't like, you don't like losing. But you know, there's a wee boy, 12 year old Aidan Lawson that I play a wee bit of golf with and, and, and he, I think you're going to come on to him shortly. And Aidan's a great kid, 12 year old plays off too and you know, he'll, you know, we'll throw the balls up and I very rarely beat him but the odd time I do, it's like in a storm off the 18th and stand at the car waiting, his dad coming, you know, no handshakes, nothing. And I don't mind that because it shows he cares and it shows that he's got it in his heart and that he'll grow out of that in the next few years he'll shake hands in 18th and he'll say, well done and thanks for the game. But he takes it sore. And I don't mind that because I was exactly the same at that age. You know, it shows that he. He's got a hunger and he doesn't want you to lose. And the more you lose, the more that you then want to win. Because I don't want to feel like that again.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: You need to have that desire. I think in any sport, I even think there's a life skill. We'll come to a part of life skills later. But the reason I mentioned the failure, I listened to the podcast with Paul McGinley. It was quite interesting because he was relating it to golf being a very, very different sport in the sense because 99.9% of the guys playing every week are used to failure.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: And then you go the other way and mention about winning, it's all the better. So there's Richard Bland, who first won in 478 tournaments or something. It was. So there's two kind of sides to what it means. But it is difficult in golf, isn't it? Because some players will go through the career and never win.
It's not like some other sports.
Team sports.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah. The only re argument I would push back to that with Paul McGinley saying that you're saying you're 99% are. Are used to or it's finishing second, third in a big event.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: Also, just, just. It depends on how you class failure as well, in a sense. I think I was just relating to. To the. To being able to win, maybe.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. If I was finishing top six and every European Tour event a plane, I would happily call that failure.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: You'd be back on the island again.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Take my money and run. Absolutely.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: But look, I just think failure, you've got to try and embrace it and utilize it. Last question from a golfing perspective, really as far as playing. Alan, who excites you now? I know you mentioned Tiger, but we know Tiger's coming towards kind of pretty much the end. But who excites you now? Who when you do watch, let's say a Masters, who would you watch out for and look for or want the TV to follow for you?
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Honestly, Mark, if Tiger's not playing and he hasn't for a few years now. Well, he did obviously won the Masters a couple of years years back. But I have to say there's nobody really excites me. And you know, DeChambeau does excite me. I Find them quite intriguing to watch as opposed to excitement.
Rory. I'm getting fed up watching Rory because he's on the cusp of, you know, creating history, winning four majors and then he seems to have a bad round in every tournament he plays in and he frustrates me. So it's not that I don't like Rory at the.
I get frustrated watching them do you know, I'm more excited about the Connor Symes of this world and Scotland and the Bob McIntyre's that are coming through. That excites me. I'm very much a passionate Scot and I get more excited when I see our younger ones coming through. So there's no de jumps out. But I would love to see. And I know I keep talking about him, but I'd love to see Tiger coming back just for another couple of seasons. Even if he teed it up three or four times a year. I think that would be great for the game and great for the audiences and stuff. You know, I think, I still think, you know, he's.
We've written him off so many times and I wouldn't be surprised if we get another tune out of him at some point. And if we do, I will be watching the telly.
[00:34:27] Speaker B: Definitely another phenomenal comeback. I mean, I think there's no doubt crowds, crowds at participating, crowds at the event and crowds on television.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: By 40% when Tiger plays.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Look, I'm moving on to a topic that I know is close to your heart and is about the next generation and take a lot of satisfaction from your involvement with golfing and targeting those, those age groups between 3 and 14 year olds. Can you again just give us a brief insight into your involvement on a daily basis and also what golfing is hoping to achieve not just in Scotland, but obviously further beyond.
[00:34:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I was managing director Mark. I was very hands on day to day operationally with golf and now I'm actually just a brand ambassador so I've stepped back. But still I'll still attend some kids events, competitions that we have. I'll do about First Tee Start and do the prize giving stuff like that, do a couple of presentations at clubs around the country.
So I'm still very involved with golf and very proud to be. So golfing are just basically trying to grow the game as you said, they are from 3 to 14 year olds, excuse me. And they've got three different areas to the business which is award winning equipment for the kids, the golf clubs, they've been awarded best junior clubs in the world, three out of the Last five years by Golf Digest, which is fantastic. They also do a schools education program which is brilliant because, you know, up in Scotland here, you know, the kids go to PE and it's still very much football, rugby, netball, hockey for the girls and nobody's doing golf, you know, and you know, and I know, you know, golf you get into early on, you play all your, you know, into your 80s and 90s, you know, football, rugby, netball, hockey. Your career is very short, it's over quickly. You can't really, you know, play on your own. It's very much a team game. So we're trying to get in there and educate kids a little bit more about golf, but make it fun for them. So play lots of games with them where they get a workbook and they'll maybe play a game in the PE hall and if they put, for talking sake, four balls into the hoop, it might say in the book, you've now got to multiply that four by seven. How many would you get? You know, and so it's all linking back to their education as well. And then golfing. Also do a My Pathway to Golf app, which is really for coaches and for venues to use where you can do your coaching with the kids and the kids can log onto the app as can mom and dad, see where the kids are in the leaderboards, see what skills tests have passed. They can do it in fitness exercises at home or in the garden. It's fabulous. So that's the three areas of the business and it's great, it's very refreshing and it's what the game needs.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: And are the schools working in collaboration with local clubs as well? Alan?
A direct link between the two of them to try and get that progression from. I mean I've seen lots of pictures and videos from you. It's great because it can work in a sports hall with a plastic and softer equipment to begin with. But it's the ultimate goal to get them or enough of them to consider taking the sport up.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: That's exactly the idea, Marks to go into schools and probably when we go into primary schools, I would say as high as 90% of kids have never had a golf club in their hand. So the idea is to get and do maybe a six week program with them, get them interested and then out of that, you know, let's say there's 10%, I thought I've really enjoyed that and I want to continue. Then we'll introduce them to a local golf club, preferably who use our My Pathway to Golf app and then they can they can kick on with that progression? Because back in the day, even when, you know, when I was first turned pro and I was going into schools, I would get in for four or five weeks, the kids would hit ball into a net, I would disappear. The kids would be like, what was that all about? You know, and then they wouldn't know what to do next and I would just go in and do my bit. So that's much more detailed now how they then progress. So on average we get after our maybe a six week program, get into schools. On average we get about 10% saying I want to continue, which is great. If we get into school, 300 kids go through the program, 30 of them are then wanting to develop and, and move on, which is a good.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: But that's 10% you never had anyway.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: Exactly.
And it's good for the clubs in.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: The area as well and often something different. But equally they need it consistently, don't they? They need it to be. Is there a lot of support from local governing bodies and also sporting bodies as far as that either have a responsibility or have an involvement for golf and sport to try and get that message further or continuous or give. Because I'm going to go into it as well, but give kids a step up because it's quite expensive or can be.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: It's not great. Mark, I have to say from, from the governing bodies, golf and get a little bit of a sort of local help from local councils, etc, we'll get grants from, from them. But trying to get into bed with the, the governing bodies. Scottish Gulf Farina these European Tour it's difficult because there are so many companies like golfing out there that are trying to tap in. So I say we very much relied on our own sales and local authorities to help us in different areas of Scotland, certainly as well deprived areas where we can hopefully get a bit of money from local councils to help out. But I get, as I say, the Scottish Golf RNAs of this world.
They've got everybody knocking their door looking for something. So it's not easy.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Again, I'm not trying to be smart. It's probably just a genuine interest. Alan. But is the RNA spread too far and wide globally and then also does it just need to be a bit more joined up with all these companies that may be doing something similar to try and maybe cut down on cost or have a bit more collaboration or split areas up or do something? I mean, I know you've got so much experience.
How could those kind of challenges be overcome?
[00:40:17] Speaker A: Possibly, Mark, possibly it could be. I think the rna, to be fair, do a great job. I think, you know, you may or may not know this, but the rna, they fund much, much more than you or I will never, ever know.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: It's global, isn't it?
[00:40:32] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
And a lot of the time they are enabled, deal with a particular individual or a group or a community or something.
And part of the deal is, look, it's an anonymous donation and, you know, we don't want you to be shouting about this too much. And they just, like, been under the radar a little bit. So I think the RNA do a pretty good. A pretty good job. I mean, they're a massive organization globally. They're on a great ship. They're very organized, very, very professional.
You know, steeped in history. You know, the game of golf are indebted to the rna, so. And they do a lot. So I would find it very difficult to be critical of them or to say, for them to change anything. I think they've got it right and good for them and long may it continue.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: No, yeah, as I said, I was just trying to think they are spent, so why they do so much. It's difficult to get involved in everything.
But it must be quite rewarding going into school and seeing kids that have not never picked up a golf club either take to it or enjoy it or just embrace it. I mean, that. That must be.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: I think the most rewarding part for me is seeing that wee smiley faces when they hit it up in the air for the first time. It's as simple as that, you know, and. And when you and I were growing up, Martin, I mean, we would get a club put in our hands that was too long for us with a real golf ball, and the club was that heavy, it would be swinging right over your head. You'd no control over it, and you would just basically duff it along the ground 10ft. There was. There's no satisfaction in that. And if you were to do that with kids now, they would get bored very quickly and say, oh, I'm not doing that. But, you know, we get in there with, you know, clubs that are built specifically for the kids. The heads are oversized, the sweet spot's 35% bigger than normal clubs, and the balls are more lightweight. Dead, dead. Easy to get the ball up in the air and see soon as they hit it, that ball was up there that they're hooked. Their refaces are like, oh, did you see that? Did you see that? Fantastic. And from that you're off to a great start. Then they now want to do it again and then they want to go home and show their mum and dad, look, I can get this ball up there. And just. That is so simple. And you go away from a school going, geez, that was good, that was, you know, you get two or three wee rascals, of course, that are not bothered and they're making everybody's life hell.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: Spinning. An accident's a weapon.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: Exactly. Try to hit the kids with the clubs but, but sometimes you see moments like that and you do, you drive away and you think, that was great. And you know, and you've made a few kids, you've made their day, you know, which is nice.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: Conscious of the age, Alan, I mean, what happens when the 14 is up? What are you expecting the local clubs and the pros to hopefully have a hold of them and kind of they've got them hooked, they've got them into the system by then, probably it's before.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: 14 now, Martin, you know, our goal at golfing is really to introduce kids to the game and we don't do any heavy coaching with them, in fact none. We don't really do any coaching. It's just about getting a club in their hand, letting them enjoy it, educate them a little bit about the game. And once we've done that, and sometimes that could be six months, sometimes it could be four or five years, but we know then that kid's now ready for one to one proper tuition and it tends to be around about maybe 12, 13, 11, 12, 13 is the kind of age to start. You know, hopefully they've had a few years of fun getting to know other kids and starting to play golf at a local course.
So let them enjoy those first few years. I think people can be too quick now to, you know, get a five, six year old to a coach and start drumming it into them. I'm not a great fan of that. I would let them enjoy their first few years, let them make their own mistakes, let them try and find out themselves, how do you hit it right to left or left to right? Or how do you hit it high, low and then let them sort of, you know, find that little journey out themselves and then hopefully we'll know the right time to then go and get them to a pro.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: I'm aware that in life in general, most cases, Alan, it comes down to cost, but you mentioned about deprived areas and going into schools.
How can that be overcome that if, if you have a talent or you're someone that's really interested. But again, I'll mention it later, but just the whole cost of clubs getting started. And club memberships are completely different because they're quite cheap for kids. But just some of the costs. And how could that be a barrier that could be overcome for some of these kids in some of these areas that it's just not affordable.
[00:44:49] Speaker A: I've worried for years, Martin. I still worry occasionally that, you know, how many kids have went through the net, how many have we lost? Not just for golf or tennis, for other sort of sports like that. You know, it's difficult, you know, where a kid might come home from the school and say, dad, I'm really enjoying golf, I need a set of clubs and I need this and I need to join a club and all the rest of it. And the dad might, if the dad's a non golfer.
Oh no, no doing that. But the mum and dad will not think twice about running out and buying the wee boy a pair of football boots at £200, you know, and you can get. I mean golf, yes, it can be expensive, but golf at the moment, Mark, you can. It's cheaper now than it ever has been. There's more, more clubs kicking up more.
[00:45:34] Speaker B: Golf, second hand clubs as well.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: And people are so generous. I mean you got a lot of members now who donate clubs to the club for the junior section or they'll throw in a big bag of balls or whatever. So people are generous. But it is, it is difficult to say there's a kid with a talent because if the teachers don't play golf, they won't appreciate that what they've got under their nose is potentially a great talent. And if they're not a golfer, it's just another kid with a club in their hand to them. So it does give me a wee bit of concern because of those reasons a few talents have went through the net.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Yeah, look, I don't know the answer. Maybe it is where clubs get more involved and donate more clubs as well, golf clubs to the children. But look, it leads on to growing the games parliament, Alan. It has to be new generations coming through. But I'm still aware, as with others that see it all the time, maybe a lot more females, maybe a lot younger. It's still a very daunting experience and intimidating to go to a golf club or to play 18 holes or to go into the clubhouse.
I mean, someone has to change.
I think there's been slight changes, but do you think there's still a lot more to come to be more certain clubs to be more welcoming?
[00:46:46] Speaker A: I do, Mark. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you, in my experience of the last being in the golf industry, do you know who the best are doing? Just everything you've described there is the ladies. I've been to so many clubs where the ladies, if a new member joins, there'll be two or three ladies of that ladies section who are allocated to go and play, you know, almost that new member to shadow the ladies. So the ladies will take them to the next. You know, the next afternoon they're having tea and cakes. The ladies will take them in. This is a new member, this is, whoever it is. And they'll take them out in the golf course and they'll walk around with them and they'll show. And they're doing that voluntary. They're doing that because they're making that lady feel very, very welcome.
And from a commercial point of view, a potential member for the next 15, 20 members for the club. There's too many of them that, you know, a personal walk in. And again, we're sitting here at Dalmahoy. I was director of golf here and, you know, and I was always saying to my guys, you know, when a new member comes in, don't just take their money and get them to sign the, you know, give them a wee tour around the place, take them up to the driving ends, get them a free bucket of balls, let them hit the them, you know, try and make them feel welcome. From that moment they walk in the door and there's not enough of that goes on.
People need to make the new member experience a good one, an enjoyable one, where that new member, when he get. He or she goes into the pub that night and bumps into their pals and says, oh, I joined Dalma Hoy today. And by the way, I'm so glad I did because they were fantastic today. What a welcome. I got. I met the club captain and I got a little tour of the place and I can't wait to be a member of this club, you know, and the other flip side of that is they could be sitting there at night going, oh, geez, I joined Dalmajoy today, you know, handed over my money, had to sign that, and that was it. And I'm kind of wee bit nervous now. I don't know anybody and, you know, and I don't know, I don't know how to register for the medals. I don't know, you know, when their winter league is, you can make their life so much easier by embracing that from the word go. And that's very apparent in a lot of golf clubs.
[00:49:01] Speaker B: I'm glad you talked like that because I think a lot of it's down to service and how you engage with people and how you look after people.
I understand the challenges, but also, a golf club is a business, it has to be run as a business. And surely I think there's probably a lot more education or a lot more knowledge needs to be shared or expected with people, because more members, more secondary spend, adding to the benefit of the club.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:49:24] Speaker B: But committees, captains and existing members have to understand that the longevity of the club will exist by that kind of welcoming attitude. I think golf you'll have known better than me, but I think golf in general is changing, but I think maybe the clubhouse and some clubs on the course still got a little bit to go.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: 100% agree, Mark. You don't have to have the best golf course in the world. I mean, you could be a visitor and if you're driving home that day and your pal phone, jin says, how was your golf today? You'd say, do you know what? It wasn't the greatest course in the world, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. The views were nice, the course was in lovely condition, but the welcome I got and the bacon roll I had was lovely. And when I came in again, just started at the first tee, wishing me all the best, showing me, you know, the best way to play these holes and blah, blah, blah. And then we came in with a lovely lunch. The staff were great. I'll 100% be going back there. So you don't need to have the best golf course in the world. It needs to be a golf experience.
[00:50:21] Speaker B: Regardless of culture that's driven from those that are overseeing the operation. That's what has to be.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: It needs to be friendly, it needs to be welcoming. Your golf course needs to be in decent condition, it needs to be tidy. Housekeeping needs to be good. And more than anything, anything, the service and the experience you get has to be warm, welcoming, good old Scottish hospitality and you'll get them back all day long.
[00:50:45] Speaker B: And especially as we're trying to get the younger generation as we're speaking about, and then the families will come along, hopefully whilst they're playing, another bit of secondary spend.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: It's not difficult.
[00:50:53] Speaker B: Is there a lot of clubs doing it, Alan?
But obviously there will be some clubs that are better than others.
[00:50:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I would say that the resorts are very good at it, but they can afford, afford it. You know, they can afford to, you know, the Gleneagles of this world.
[00:51:06] Speaker B: And I'm sorry, this is probably going to Sound controversial to. Sorry, sorry, to any golf committees and members, but is that because they don't have committees?
Because it's easier maybe not having a committee to create that culture and there's not a sea change every one or two years?
[00:51:20] Speaker A: That's very, very true. You made a very valid point. As I say, when I was director of Golf here at Dalmajoy, I controlled my team.
It was me that put the standards in place, so I was in control of what the welcome looked like and everything else. And I worked closely with the green staff. So, yes, we had a committee, but that was more just to talk about the running of their medals and any social evening. So they never really got a say in what happens. But again, I think the resort type places, they can invest a little bit more, they can get more people in so that there is a proper membership coordinator or membership manager who can actually have the time to spend with that new member and look after them, all the visitors.
So I think, you know, but. But again, I still think at golf clubs, take the committees aside of it, you will have a good percentage of your members who have the club at heart, especially ones that are maybe retired and they've been there for years and they're looking to do, you know, get their time in. There's so many great people out there that if you said to them, listen, would you mind coming down maybe a few hours a week and standing the first tee and saying hello to the visitors and welcome them and tell them they play how to play the first hole, you'd be amazed at the response you would get. People would love to do that. They really would. You get so many people that can make that experience better and it wouldn't even cost you anything. All you need to do is ask.
[00:52:42] Speaker B: And I think those are the little things, added value, added benefits that can be put into something simple to make a difference. I always call it wow moments, you know, and as you say, they don't cost. So I'm always conscious as well. I mean, I spend a bit of time down at Craigie Law and Derek.
Now, I know Derek's very fortunate with the facilities that he has, but without having a committee and just the feedback that you hear and the noises that you hear, how that club's run, how the atmosphere is in the club. I'm not saying take away all committees, obviously, but it just shows the other side of it as well as the positive I mentioned earlier on. But the life skills that you developed through playing golf, I mean, I've got my own thoughts. What Golf in general, even at my level to the day when I die, I'll keep playing it. But life skills for you, that helped you along the way into obviously what was more of a corporate led career.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: Yeah, huge life skills Mark, really for me, I mean I've often told this story, you know, I went to America when I was 17 to do a two year scholarship at junior college and I went and my mum, my wee mum has always said that I went to America a wee boy and I came back two years later and I was a young, mature man and you know, that life skill at that very early age or another side of the world, you know, I grew up, my mom and dad did everything for me. I'd get up in the morning, wouldn't even make my bed, you know, and my wee dad would bring me a cup of tea and a bit of toast in my bed, you know, before I went to school or before I went to work or whatever I was doing at the time, you know. And I came back from college in America and I was quite, I was very disciplined. I would make my bed, I would make mowing meals, I would do mowing, ironing, which again my mum do moan washing. My mum did all that for me and that was a two year, a great two years where wonderful two years improving my golf playing in great, great weather and great fun facilities. But I really did, you know, learn so much life and how to manage yourself and that was a great, that was a great springboard. But you know, in life, Mark, and golf, you know, it's incredible the people you meet, I mean hundreds and hundreds of people and you know, and as you say, it's not just about playing the game, it's dealing with corporate people, you know, it's going to dinners, it's going to different functions and you know, the life skills you develop as you go through that journey through golf is amazing and I, and I've enjoyed that journey.
I do feel myself as a, as a people person, I enjoy interacting with people and enjoy just chewing the fat and talking about golf or talking about football, whatever. But the life skills, I think if you have a career in golf because you've got to deal with so many different types of people in different situations is only healthy and it's a great way to go.
[00:55:39] Speaker B: I think even just from playing Alan, the whole respect element, the whole courtesy, you know, how to communicate, how to engage the discipline, even a bit humility, I mean, I think it's one of the few sports that will give you life, lifelong skills.
People Skills.
Last question on this one, Alan. And this is maybe probably just from my perspective, just to understand, are we changing? Because there's still a lot of views that golf is an elitist sport.
Your thoughts on that? I know we've kind of alluded to it as far as some of the costs with kids coming through, but overall, maybe globally, is it still viewed as an elitist sport in your dealings with golf on a daily basis? It probably is by too many.
[00:56:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it probably is by. By a lot of people, Mark. For me, not so much now. I think possibly at one time in my life, I did maybe, maybe 20, 25 years ago. I thought it was a wee bit elitist then, but I firmly believe that's changed a bit because golf is more affordable now. It's more accessible.
Even things like, you know, ladies been allowed to join golf clubs now that haven't been in for 200 years, which personally, I think is ridiculous.
And I welcome any change like that. So, you know, I like the fact now you can go to places like, you know, Archerfield, you know, Renaissance down East coast of Scotland. You can get in there with a pair of jeans on and your trainers, and it's relaxed and there's a nice feel about it. Okay, fine, you've got to wear trousers on the golf course, but I like that. And I get into more clubhouses now in my travels around Scotland.
And you sense the change. You feel that it's a bit more relaxed.
You know, this is. You know, this sounds daft, but, you know, you even go into golf clubs now, right? And you'll go up to the bar or the waitress or whatever, and she'll be standing there and she'll have a tattoo on her neck or her arm or something like that. And they're wonderful, they're great, they're chatty, whatever.
Now, as early as probably 10, 15 years ago, that wouldn't have been allowed at golf clubs. Now, I'm sorry, I would rather have a girl standing there, tattooed from head to toe, who's provided me with a bit of chat, welcoming, great service, than somebody standing there in a uniform with a stiff upper lip, with no personality and delivering poor service.
Time has changed.
[00:58:01] Speaker B: It comes back to engagement your customers.
[00:58:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's totally that.
So I do believe that we're not as judgmental as we used to be. Oh, I'll just switch that off. I do believe we're not as judgmental in a golfing environment anymore. So that, again, for me, is a good thing. But, yes, I think there'll always Be a perception by many that it's an elitist sport, but I'm not so sure.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: Thank you, Alan. Look, I'm keen to progress on to.
For me, which is of an interest as well, the commentating side of things.
A natural fit for you, Alan. I mean, obviously you've done the Opens, you've done Ryder Cups, you've done Solheim Cups, probably related to Gleneagles, but was it an easy fit for you? Was it easy just to slide into that kind of on course and be on call to deliver how you see things?
[00:58:50] Speaker A: Well, you've heard this morning how much I can talk and, you know, come comfortable with it. So it was a dead easy fit, Mark. Absolutely dead easy.
I can talk all day and. And you know, I've got a passion for being out there. And honestly, Mark, for me, the commentating is the next best thing to play myself. It is absolutely so much fun. And it's only radio. I do really. It's a radio. BBC Radio Scotland. I've done 5 Live a couple of times, but I think 5 Live, I'm not really that as big a name, you know, down south. No one ever heard from me, but heard of me, but certainly in Scotland. So five Live, like the kind of bigger names, you know, I remember one year we worked with BBC Radio Scotland and five Live, they had like Chris Evans on and Andrew Coultart and stuff. But it's just so much fun. And it's great fun commentating on golf and the amount of feedback. I mean, I'll be a tournament at the Open or the Ryder cup and I'll get bombarded that night for people, friends of mine or even the odd one in Facebook that haven't heard, I don't know. And they'll text you that night and say, big man. I was in my car for three hours today. That was absolutely fantastic. I was on the edge of my seat listening to it. And you described it perfectly because you're trying to create an image of them imagining what it looks like playing the 16th hole at Gleneagles and they've got a lake in front of. And he's got hit this up there, right, with a bit of a draw and the crowds behind and he's wearing white trousers with black shoes and blah. And you try and describe what you're seeing. And it does work, you know, and it's just. And it's so exciting for me, especially when you're commentating and somebody is coming down the stretch and you know, they can win this, they can win a major and your heart starts going a wee bit faster because you're so involved with it and it's just brilliant fun.
[01:00:41] Speaker B: It leads me on. So still an adrenaline buzz. You could tell that from yourself. Butterflies commentating on it or when they're coming down the stretch or get a bit nervous as to how you're describing and maybe how they're feeling because you can associate with that. Yeah.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: You've been out there with them for four hours. You know, you've almost become a part of their round. You've seen every shot. You've heard the chat going on between that player and their caddie. You can sense they are now getting nervous. You sense that caddy's maybe getting a little bit nervous.
[01:01:09] Speaker B: Sorry, Alan. Does it make it even more interesting and exciting if you know the golfer?
Is that ever.
If you knew them? Yeah.
[01:01:20] Speaker A: Yeah, you're probably right, actually. And one of the ones that was, even to this day, it was a sickener was Mark Warren. Mark was leading the Scottish Open up at Castle Stewart. He was three ahead with 40 play. And I was in Mark's group and we hunted a Scottish Open winner since Monty at Loch Lomond. And Mark's a great young guy. He's a fellow Ranger supporter and so I'm not being biased there, but I was obviously wanting him to get the job done and he had a huge following that day and the whole of Scotland were rooting for him and he made a couple of really poor mistakes and he. And he threw away that three shot lead over the last four holes and that was a sickener and sickness for him. But I remember me leaving that day and I was really quite deflated and I'm thinking, God, how's Mark feeling if I'm feeling like this? You know, so you definitely do. But one of the ones I do remember and growing up as a wee boy, like we all have these dreams.
I always wanted to walk up the 18th at St. Andrews in an Open Championship with the crowds.
You know, that was my dream, was to do that. Now, unfortunately, I never ever played in an Open and never got to achieve that dream. But again, talking about the second best thing, I mean, I was in the last group when Louis Oosthausen won at St. Andrews and he was playing with.
[01:02:42] Speaker B: Paul 2010, I think.
[01:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And he was playing with Paul Casey in the last group and I was in that group. And there I was walking up the 18th with the stands, walking with the Open champion who was 15ft away from me. And we're walking up and he's taking the Adulations. The crowd and the place was going crazy. And even as I'm sitting here talking to you now, I'm getting hairs in the back of the neck thinking about it. It was just wonderful. I actually stopped myself waving at the crowd, you know, I was ready to wave myself.
[01:03:12] Speaker B: Thoughts for the big man?
[01:03:13] Speaker A: Exactly. So. So that was so, so special to be walking up the 18th at St. Andrews with the Open champion about to be, you know, and that was. I was buzzing that night. I really was. We stayed up in St. Andrews that night with BBC team.
We went for a barbecue and a few beers and I was flying that night. They just couldn't bring me down off the clouds. It was just a great day and a great moment.
[01:03:39] Speaker B: Well, as you were waving, Kevin and I were probably standing on the balcony at Russak's, probably standing on the jump in shouting over to you.
But with that in mind, and I know, you know, the old course, going to some other courses, is it easy for you to see the shots as the players are getting ready to play them, or do you have to have a bit more of a brief and be prepared to walk the course to know the course so you get a better understanding for it? Or is it. Is it quite easy for yourself to visualize?
[01:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm pretty lucky, Mark, that most of the course, in fact, all of the courses that I've ever commentated on, I've played myself probably many times. So I know the course very well. So a lot of the guys who take it very, very. We're all professional, but a lot of the guys will go and walk the course the day before. I've never had to do that. I've been very lucky that I can. I know. I know my way about.
So it's not difficult. And you know what? I can describe a shot in the radio and visualize this.
The listeners don't know anyway because they can't see it. So I can make. Make up any old rubbish and say what I like and. But no, it's great and it's.
But it's fun sometimes where I'd be standing there as a decent player and I'd be thinking, how would I play this shot? And then I'd be watching Mickelson or McElroy or Someday or Tyrrell Hatton, and they'd hit a completely different shot of what I'd be thinking, you know, and not saying my way is right or their way is wrong or vice versa, but it was just always interesting for me, going, jeez, I. I would never have Played that. But again, that's probably why I'm sitting here and there sitting in the private yachts.
[01:05:12] Speaker B: You know, I think, look, there's many ways to play golf. There's many ways to get your score in there. And please take this the way it's meant, Alan. I mean this is a compliment, I would say, but it seems that it is easy for you.
There's no ears and graces, just a genuine good guy talking about golf when you do the commentating and I think that kind of leads in. Sorry to. You mentioned him earlier, Andrew Coulter, very similar, Wayne Riley, they come across as natural. Natural, sorry. As well as knowledgeable.
But you get starstruck at all commentating or meeting the people or meeting anyone when you're commentating or as a result of the commentating side of things.
[01:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, don't know, a bit starstruck, but certainly a little bit.
[01:05:55] Speaker B: Or stand back in awe.
[01:05:56] Speaker A: Oh yeah, certainly a little bit overawed. Absolutely.
I think possibly the first one ever felt like that. And I had seen him on the European tour.
I sat next table to him at a restaurant. I was in the locker room at the same time as him. But it was Sevy, you know, the first time I commentated and I think it was at Karnusti when Harrington and Garcia. I think that was the first time, maybe before that, I can't remember, but Sevy was kicking about and he just had an amazing presence, he really did. And all people talk about when this certain guy walks into the room, everybody kind of looks and he had that, you know, so certainly savvy.
And then the real second or the real bittersweet one was when I was in the last group, Tom Watson's group at Turnberry, a 59 year old man on the cusp of history. And I remember walking down the 18th and I remember saying live on radio that you know, he had a great tee shot at the last right in the middle of fairway. Perfect. And I remember saying, I said, I think we're. I said, I think we're 10 minutes away from witnessing one of the greatest sporting moments of all time. Not just in golf, one of the great sportsmen, a man nearly 60, winning a major at Turnbury. Amazing.
And you know, I was getting emotional watching it. And do you know the sickening thing about that mark was he had a great second shot as well, slightly long.
[01:07:26] Speaker B: If I remember correct.
[01:07:27] Speaker A: But he landed at about 25 short of the pin. And I'll never forget the noise the ball made when it hit the green it was as if it hit a bit of wood. It was like the hardest part on the green. And when I saw the ball coming in, I commented, I said, this is absolutely perfect. It's right down the pin and he's probably landed it within six feet of where he wanted to land the first bounce. And that first bounce, the noise it made and it just kept rolling and rolling and rolling and I'm shouting, stop, stop. And it goes over the back edge. And where he was really unlucky, it then rolled up against the collar of the semi rough, a bit like a snooker table. Been under the cushion, difficult. Now if that ball had traveled another 2 or 3 inches and got into the semi rough, then it was an automatic chip. Or if it stopped two or three inches short, he could have putted it, but he was stuck under the collar. Then he didn't know, is it chip this to a putt it. And you could see him now flapping a wee bit. He was getting where he'd been so cool. But you could see now he was becoming a bit troubled and, and he took the putter out a poor putt and you know, he had about an eight footer to win the Open and it didn't even come close.
But you know, he, he, I was quite overawed by him because I had to then go up to the, the first playoff hole and he walked up and, and you know, I thought, geez, you know, Tom Watson, you know, I mean, you know, but I do remember saying, and a few guys have said to me to this day, they remember that moment. I said it, I said, guys, I'm. To all the listeners, I'm standing here in the first tee at the, the first playoff hole waiting for Tom Watson and Stuart Sink coming up. And I'm describing them, seeing them and coming in buggies in the background and up they came onto the tee and I just, and I said, oh my goodness. I said, since Tom Watson played the 18th to where he is now has about 40 minutes have passed. And I am not exaggerating, Tom Watson has aged about 10 years and 40 minutes. And I said, I said it live on radio, I said, I hope I'm wrong, but there's only one winner of this playoff and it's not Tom Watson. And you know, within 10 minutes of that playoff, it was all over. I mean, it was just, it was, it was a real, it was so emotional. It really was emotional. And just, he just, he just looked a beaten man at that point. There was no way he was winning.
[01:09:42] Speaker B: That playoff proper Legend of the game. And it's interesting because in my family it kind of starts at Tom Watson was the favorite.
[01:09:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:09:48] Speaker B: And then transcended over to Sevy. So it's quite interesting that you've had the pleasure of kind of experiencing that aura that they both bring to it.
[01:09:57] Speaker A: I feel sorry just quickly. I felt sorry for Stuart Sink that day actually, because he obviously won the playoff and all everybody was talking about was, was, was Tom. And I went into the press. I sneaked in. We were. We weren't really allowed in the press room, but I managed to sneak in for the press conference. And I'll never forget Stuart Sink coming in and he took his hat off and he put his hat down the table and he let out this big sort of sigh of relief. And the first question to him was, Stuart's. An obvious question, how do you feel? And Stuart Sink turned around and said, I feel like bad Santa. And that was his answer. And I thought, what a shame. And we all laughed and we thought, well, that's what we see as. As, well, bad Santa. And that's what he said. I thought, oh, that's a shame. The guy's just had the biggest moment, the biggest day of his life, winning his first major and he felt. Feels like bad Santa.
[01:10:46] Speaker B: You know, Good response.
[01:10:47] Speaker A: That was a great response.
[01:10:49] Speaker B: Alan, just to touch on, because I know the radio show that you hosted along with Rob McLean and was it Graham Spears? I think it was very successful, about five years an episode a week.
I know from chatting to you previously, a lot of work goes into that. A lot of commitment and cost as well.
Do you miss that or had it run its course or. Because it seems to be a loss to not just the radio stations and broadcasts, but there's nothing that really seems to have replaced it.
[01:11:15] Speaker A: Mark, I was amazed to drop that show and yeah, I was annoyed and I said that to the guys at Radio Scotland. It was such a successful show. Sunday morning live, you know, it's on for an hour.
And the guests we used to get on was fantastic, absolutely brilliant.
And it was a great program. And, and we. So the most popular show on BBC Radio Scotland is a show called off the Ball with Tom Cowen and Cosgrove, Stuart Cosgrove. And that's at lunchtime on a Saturday. And that gets, you know, maybe 20,000 listeners every Saturday, which is good for an independent radio station.
And we were very quickly up there, we were the second listened to program because I think it was on about 10 o' clock on a Sunday morning or half nine, I can't remember. So a lot of golfers were driving to the golf course to play their game. So they were listening to. Or they're in the kitchen making a Sunday breakfast and they've got the radio and listening to the golf. And they loved it. And we used to do a Scottish golf roundup about how all our own players were doing on the mini tours and the tartan tour, European tour. And we had a lot of fun with it with a lot of good laughs on it as well. And it was a great, it was a feel good show. It really was. And then all of a sudden, you know, we get told there was, you know, a few changes and it was going to be dropped. And I was gobsmacked. And the amount of feedback I got was unbelievable, saying what's happened because. And there was no rhyme or reason for it. And I tuned in a few weeks after we get dropped and without being disrespectful, sitting there listening to pottery programs and, oh, you know, how to. How to grow your tulips in the garden and stuff. Now I'm not being disrespectful. I know lots of people that will interest them. But I'm sitting there going, my goodness, this is knitting programs and all that. And I'm going, really? You know, we had a vibrant one hour show there with a lot of good guests, even if you were a non golfer, a lot of them were tuning in just from the banter in the chat because it was good.
[01:13:21] Speaker B: But surely for the home of golf, it dictates that there should be some form of presence continuously, ongoing.
[01:13:27] Speaker A: So I do miss that show. And you know, Rob McLean and Graham Spears, I would regard them as very close friends now and we're in touch quite a bit. Don't see them as often as I like. We're all busy, but we're always in touch with WhatsApp or a message.
[01:13:42] Speaker B: Interested from my previous dealings with Rob, is he a decent golfer?
[01:13:46] Speaker A: I feel Rob's handy. Rob's a handy.
[01:13:49] Speaker B: Is he passionate about it?
[01:13:50] Speaker A: Oh, he loves his golf. Absolutely loves it. I'm not sure what Rob's handicap is, but I know he's pretty tidy. He's pretty tidy golfer. He's a lot better than Graham, put it that way.
[01:14:00] Speaker B: Just to finish briefly, Alan, more bring things up to date and what you're getting up to now. I know obviously the ambassador roles are in place. Obviously with golfing. You've now got golf brakes. I see recently, obviously dementia's involved as well, but tell the listeners A little bit about some of the golf events for the amateurs, the pros. And one, it didn't stagger me because it's quite interesting. But even the cack handed tournament that, jeez, it could go global to be honest, just gives a quick insight into the event side of things that it must take up a bit of time as well and organisation.
[01:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it does Mark. But I like being busy and I like doing my bit for the game and I know a lot of, of pleasure people are getting pleasure out of the tours I put on, which is great.
But I started a tour called the Get Back to Golf Tour and I started that in 2020 and that was right in the summer in the middle of the, the first lockdown. And I was, you know, and all the top amateurs and the pros basically had nothing to play in because all the events were cancelled. And I was getting a little bit concerned. So those people in the golf courses, there was no competition for them. So it was like in a three o' clock in the morning idea had I woke up and I thought, you know, I was trying to think how what I could do. So, so you were allowed to go and play golf at courses, blah blah, blah. So I decided just in the throes of COVID to set up this tour, get back to golf where you had a 14 day window to post a score and it would be a proper medal round. You put everything out and you organized your own team, playing partners who were also a member of the tour.
And you basically went out, you booked your own tea time with the club. So I set up all the, and I thought this could work. And I thought the only thing is, you know, a four ball could play on a Tuesday and it could be flat cam all the pins in the middle of the greens or another four ball could go in the Thursday, it could be 60 mile an hour winds and all the pins are tucked away. And I thought actually I quite like, like that, that's quite unique. And I thought I bet if this takes off they'll all start looking at the forecast, what day are we going to play? And that's exactly what happened. And so I woke up, I went back to sleep that morning after the three o' clock brainwave and within 48 hours I had secured eight venues.
And this was June, July, so only had two, three months of the season left. But as I say, within 48 hours I had eight venues on board. I'd managed to get flyers done, I'd put it out on Facebook if there was any interest.
And the response just blew me away. So I opened up for amateurs, two handicap or better, and all pros, so ladies, seniors, everybody. And the response was amazing. And I genuinely was only doing it for that little summer till we came out of COVID because I thought, this ticks a lot of boxes. They're going to get a round of golf, a card in their hand, so it's competitive, they can play with their pals. So they're not turning up at a Pro Am, worried about the quality of the three amateurs. They're playing with their own PJ pros or top amateurs, and they're getting out in the fresh air, they're seeing their pals again and they've got a chance to win a few quid as well, because I charged them 35 pounds per tournament, 25 pounds pounds of that went into a prize fund and 10 pounds went to the golf club as a gratuity. So I wasn't making a penny out of it, but I wasn't in it to it. I was just genuinely wanting to do my bit. So that season finished and then all that winter I was getting guys. Big man, are you doing your tour again next year? And I'm thinking I wasn't going, but, you know, the response I got was amazing. I thought I kind of have to, you know. So last year I got it up to 12 tournaments and again, amazing venues, places like Castle Stewart came on board, Blair Gowrie, Ladybank, wonderful golf courses. And they're not in it for the 10 pound gratuity, they're in it to support Scottish golf. They appreciate what you're trying to do. And to be fair to all the guys and the girls that play in the tour are all very good at driving home after that, they've played, saying onto Facebook or social media, seeing how much they enjoyed the golf course and great whatever. And some of them have made a bit of money out of it, which is brilliant. And then last year, sponsors started coming forward. I think it's a great thing you're doing in the start. So I was then able to put money into the prize funds and it's just great fun. And the players don't know how they've done because they WhatsApp me or email me their scores at night, I keep their scores in a spreadsheet and then at the end of the 14 days, I reveal all the scores so everybody gets to see.
So it's a bit of theatre as well. So that's grown arms and legs and I'm going again with it this year. So I'm now up to 14 tournaments this year.
First one starting at Castle Stewart again in April, right through to I think Ladybank or Duddingston's, the last one in October. So they run from a Monday for two weeks, finishes on the Sunday and then the next one starts to follow and Monday, sorry, the very next day. So that's been great fun and I'll continue to do that. And then you mentioned the Cat Canders Tour. That was a weird one. There was a guy. I'm on a Facebook page, I don't know if you've seen it, Mark. It's really a really good one called Golf Courses of Scotland and they've got about 20,000 followers. And it's really just for guys to go on and say, oh, I played this course today, it was great, or whatever, or I'm coming up from England and I'm in the Fife area, Hope Courses, which you recommend. So there's a lot of engagement. And this guy, Scott Johnston just put on recently a few months ago. Hi, I'm just wondering, I'm a cat candid golfer. I wonder how many of you are out there. And he got bombarded. Oh, I'm such and such. I play at Dornoch and I play off 10 and others. I'm down in the Borders, I play off 15. And I was amazed how many Katkandi golfers there were, especially in the Highlands with the shinty and the hurling. Loads of them play cat candy. And it got me thinking. I said I've never ever seen a cat handed competition or a tour. So I googled it. Competitions for cat candied golfers. Absolutely nothing. And I thought might be something in this. So again I went on Facebook, Twitter and I put it out there and I said I'm thinking of starting up a Scottish championship, 36 hole or something like that for cat candid golfers. And again, the response, you know, people are saying, we've been crying out for this, you know, we're a funny breed playing, you know, it was all good banter and I thought there's something in this. So I thought let's just not do a 36 hole Scottish Championship, let's do a mini tour. So this year there's five one day events and then a 36 hole Scottish championship at Deer park in August. So the first one's middle of April at Montrose Golf Club, which is beautiful.
And I think we're up to about nearly 40 entries for Montrose. And you know what, it's a bit of fun.
And again, they're Getting to, you know, at the end of the day they're getting to play great courses in Scotland again. It's 35 pound entry fee but that covers the green fee and then the rest of it goes into a prize fund and I'll give them vouchers payout.
So even if they don't win anything, they're getting a chance to play five or six great venues in Scotland for 35 quid and they're going to be playing with their own Cat Candy. So there'll be new friendships made.
There'll be lifetime friendships made with us. And again, Mark, if that's a success, then I'll do it again next year and I'll do it to grow it. And I keep saying to all the members and they get back to golf tour and I keep saying it to the Cat Candy Tour guys, the only people that can make this a success now is you yourself. I can get the venues, I can put all this on, I'll do all the communication, I'll be there on the day to host. But if you're not going to support it, it's not going to work. So you guys need to make sure you're interim join and tell everybody else, tell your fellow Candace to come up from England or whatever.
And so I just keep reminding them that I can only do so much and I'm happy to do that. I enjoy doing it and enjoy putting a bit back into golf and especially in Scotland.
And so I'll continue to do that. But they need to.
[01:22:03] Speaker B: I think it's testament to yourself, Alan. I think it's phenomenal and I will genuinely watch the cack handle because I just think it potentially has got arms and legs to grow. I'm conscious of time, Alan as well. But just quickly, what's next for Alan? What's the goals? What do you want to achieve apart from getting some cash back from Aidan?
What's on the horizon?
What do you want to do in the next couple of years, shorter term.
[01:22:25] Speaker A: I think, Mark, to be honest, I've been touching on it there. I'd maybe like to develop another couple of tours.
I've got aspirations of the Get Back to Golf tour. Maybe going into England, Ireland, Wales, maybe in the next two or three years and then maybe have like a national final somewhere, stuff like that. Cat candy tours, pretty much the same thing.
And I'm always thinking of new initiatives and innovations that I can come up with that will one give me satisfaction. And just be careful, it won't take up too much of my time and it's not going to be a huge cost to me and I get great pleasure in doing my bit for Scottish golfer. And I promise you, Mark, it's not about me. I don't have an ego.
I'm not doing this for Alan Tate or for everybody say, oh, what a great guy Alan Tate is doing all this. It's not. It's not that at all. I genuinely, you know, my whole career has been golf and I've met so many great people and there's so much rubbish going on in the world and there's so many idiots out there and, you know, and I just feel that if you can make people's life a bit happier through the game of golf, then that for me is good and it gives me something to do. I like being busy. I've got loads of things going on in my life.
If there's a requirement out there for another tour or for a kids event or whatever, and the demand's there, then I'm your man, I'll get involved.
[01:23:55] Speaker B: I think the people that are friendly and close to you, Alan, they know it's not in it for you. It's not in it to heighten you and your profile.
It kind of a byproduct of that comes about anyway with some of these ambassadorial roles, really. Few quick questions to finish, because I haven't done this yet. I fancy doing it with yourself, simply just to get your idea.
[01:24:14] Speaker A: Just a quick fire round.
[01:24:15] Speaker B: It is. And I haven't done it with anyone else yet, but I just thought with yourself in the game of golf. That's my passion as well. So, yeah, favorite course you've played and one that you would play time and.
[01:24:27] Speaker A: Time again in the UK or in Scotland.
[01:24:30] Speaker B: You tell me where it has, Alan, what your favourite course is, but you have to have played it.
[01:24:34] Speaker A: Oh, I've played it many times. My favourite course in Scotland and all. I would say Mark's a wee bit unfortunate for the public because it's very exclusive that you won't go on. It's Skibo Castle up in the Highlands. An amazing, amazing golf course and incredible surroundings in the Highlands. And the way the team look after you there, that's a proper, proper golf course. Golf experience. So skeevo for me. But unfortunately, it's not invitation only. It's not really accessible.
[01:25:03] Speaker B: Regrets the one course that you've never played, Augusta. You know, I kind of thought that was going to come.
[01:25:08] Speaker A: I'm sure everybody will say, kind of expect I've been. I've been one Masters, but yeah, I would, I would, I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't give you a couple of hundred pound to play a golf course. I think that's too expensive.
But I would probably give you five times that to play Augusta as a one off.
[01:25:26] Speaker B: Best piece of advice, obviously short, but best piece of advice you would give to the higher handicap amateur golfer just.
[01:25:35] Speaker A: From a playing the game technique. Okay, so again, I've played in a lot of pro ams and you know what I always say it's not even technique, it's nothing.
All the pro ams and I've played in hundreds, maybe even a thousand players pro ams in my day. So I've played with lots and lots of amateurs from low handicap up to sort of, you know, 30 handicap, whatever.
And I would say that in a round of golf they will leave every approach short.
Honestly, it's unbelievable and it's this fear of hitting through a green. And I say to everyone, anytime I'm playing a pro am, I'll sit there, we'll be having lunch and I'll say, guys, four. I go, one wee bit of advice today. What are you scared of? Why are you short? With all your approaches today and they're looking at you. No, I'm all. And then you see them counting back, third hole of a short, fourth hole of a short, fifth hole of a short. And I said, you know the other thing I said seeing most golf courses, all the troubles at the front, a burn or bunkers are all guarded at the front, usually through the back. You can putt it or chip it back no bother. What are you scared of?
So that, so take at least one club or even two more because amateurs out there, you're always short.
[01:26:47] Speaker B: There you go. There's the best advice from Alan for everyone at my level.
Favourite Parth 3 in Scotland.
[01:26:53] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good one. Favourite Part 3 in Scotland.
[01:27:00] Speaker B: Oh, it's too easy to go global because everybody then picks out oh no.
[01:27:03] Speaker A: Maino baby, know a gem.
Favorite part three in Scotland.
If you get another question, can I.
[01:27:13] Speaker B: One more, Alan. You can come back to them and again come back to the amateurs because I play with a lot of people that get again at my level and higher. But does the golf ball make that much of a difference to the higher handicapper? Because I'm, I'm always staggered when you've got modus respect, 18, 20 handicappers. But they're playing with Pro V1s.
[01:27:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:27:30] Speaker B: And I'm thinking maybe not. Does it make that much of a.
[01:27:34] Speaker A: Difference at that level? I would say probably not.
Again, without being disrespectful to an 18, 20 handicapper, they're not that sure how the ball's going to react or they're not as good at controlling it. And by that I mean they might want a, you know, shot into a green where I want this to have one bounce and then check up and stop.
1820 handicappers are possibly at times not thinking like that. Where the better golfer is. It's all about ball control.
[01:28:03] Speaker B: The only reason I mention higher handicappers, Alan, because I'm conscious that only 1% of the golfing group globally are single handicapper golfers. And the record is about 66 million people playing golf. So there's only 1% single lower. So that's why I'm not picking on high handicappers. It's just. It's just kind of giving them some feedback.
[01:28:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:28:23] Speaker B: Favorite part three in Scotland, sir.
[01:28:25] Speaker A: Okay. Favorite part three. I know you said not to.
So my favorite, my favorite hidden gem of a golf course in Scotland's Port Patrick. I absolutely love Port Patrick, but I'm.
[01:28:37] Speaker B: Just a good par three.
[01:28:38] Speaker A: There's not a par three. It sticks out there, but I was hoping there was because I was what. I give Port Patrick a mention. So I would have to say, I think the best part three I've played in recent times is the 11th at Castle Stewart. An amazing. You know, it's like pebble beach. You've got the water and it's so dramatic that the green sits sort of almost on the beach and the rocks and then you're heading from kind of inland and it's only about, you know, it's only probably about, you know, I think I've usually, if it's a normal day, you'll hit nine or eight iron. So. And I'm a great believer. Believer that I'm a great believer the best par threes in the world are all round about eight, nine iron, you.
[01:29:18] Speaker B: Know, especially if you get the water on a can.
[01:29:20] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[01:29:21] Speaker B: The other one I thought you may have mentioned maybe not the specific hole, but obviously King's Barnes has got a couple of crackers as well. But a lot of it's to do with the backdrop. Yeah, as well.
[01:29:29] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Another pathway, I think is fantastic. Talking about Backdrop is the 15th at the Carrick at Loch Lomond. Is it the 15th? Yeah, is the 14th. Anyway, it's a big, big high tee. It's about 160 and you're going straight down and behind you is the whole of Loch Lomond.
And you know that gateway to the. The Highlands in the background? It's absolutely stunning.
[01:29:55] Speaker B: You must have done a radio show on par threes, because I think you probably could sit down for an hour and just chat about par threes.
[01:30:00] Speaker A: Oh, I could have. You got me going. Absolutely.
[01:30:02] Speaker B: Alan, I cannot personally. And for the listeners. Thank you enough. Great insight into to what's made you tick, how you've got to where you. You are, your beliefs, your. Your philosophies, your. What's been a success and what you've learned and. And it's been thoroughly. Pleasure. Thank you very much indeed, sir.
[01:30:17] Speaker A: And I hope you learned something.
[01:30:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I learned than to thank you, Matt.
